Might I make a comment here? I voted opposite of what I thought the leaders of our church might vote. My guess is that the leaders of the church would prefer the 1000 people who are not on fire for God because that is who is really "needed" in church. It's the people that might actually "need" God vs. the ones who already have got their Christian walk down pat. However, I believe that all of us, whether on fire for God or not, truly need God. Why? Because some of us have been on fire for God before. And now we find ourselves not on fire for God. And who knows? Maybe having 100 people on fire for God in our church would remind those of us who used to be on fire for God how great and awesome it really is. Then maybe we would want to be on fire once again.
You KNOW how we would respond? LOL. I'm not sure all the pastors would respond the same to this question. I always love playing 'devil's advocate' on some of this - besides, it doesn't tip my hand as to my actual opinion.
Some of my questions back would be: What does "ON FIRE" mean to you? Are there churches out there who have small congregations known for being "ON FIRE" for God? Fifteen years later, is the church the same size with the same people still being "ON FIRE?" I'm just asking. :)
Are there churches known for being "ON FIRE" where people just come to "watch those crazy people burn" from a distance? I'm just asking. :)
Is there a level of 'faith' and 'passion' that gets us into the 'on fire' camp? Are we not all on different journeys at different levels at different times? I'm just asking. :)
I find this poll very hard to answer, so much so, that I didn't answer at all. I think the people who are on fire for God can inspire us and encourage our own love for Jesus. I always feel good and smile to myself when I see folks up front during the worship...sometimes, I am one of them.
Having said that, I like a big church. That is why I chose to give KFA a try in the first place. I think if everyone there were "on fire" for God, it would scare people off. As it is, I had no idea what was going on the first time someone interpreted a message in tongues. I was completely confused about that. Had no idea you all were Pentecostal.
I have been on fire and not been...the only thing I can say with complete confidence, is that if Jesus were here to sit down and talk to me, in person, it would make a 100% difference. I know this might not be PC, but I find it harder to pray to Him when I can't actually speak with Him. I am a person who needs feedback and answers to develop a relationship that survives the ups and downs. I don't think many folks in the church can relate to that. I feel like the odd man out.
I DO feel built up and closer to the Lord when I am around others who are on fire. It is contagious. It can be difficult in such a large church, though.
I voted for the 1,000, (which would also cover the first choice) it is my belief we need to be an example to others as well as others to us. To understand what it is to be on "fire" for the Lord. Not just in church but everywhere we are/go. It is shown and taught from our attitude which comes from the purity of the heart. The second commandment states this example: Love one another as I loved you.
I agree with Anon that there are some challenges in some areas w/ a larger church .. And some blessings. That is why we strongly encourage all our people to get in, join or form a small group.
PK...I am in a small group, which is such a blessing. There are amazing and wonderful people there. We are just in a bit of a transition. The leaders are facing a difficult family situation right now.
Every time I spend the evening with them, though, I am blessed. They are strong Christians and help me in my own spiritual walk.
The first verse that pops into my head is, " since you are neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth." What this tells me is God is saying "Get off the fence!" When I see a small handful of people working their hearts out to reach I goal, even if I am less motivated, their fire rubs off on me and it either scares me away running or draws me in and I start emulating them. We need to recognize that we are not what we think we are, we are what we think. (there is a verse to this effect - it evades me at the moment) When I get in a large group that is lumbering along, I begin to think, "This is how we are suppose to progress. Those who are "fired up" should kick it down a few notches and conform. Look at the numbers. So many people can't be wrong." However, the Bible teaches that the road is narrow and not many choose it. So is the path I need to be on going to be the popular one? There is plenty of positives to the size of a church in some respects. I'll admit that when I was looking for a church, I used man's logic - if there is plenty of people in a church, they must be doing something right. I also challenge each of us to search scripture as to what the purpose of the church is? Is the main purpose more for believers to come together for worship and fellowship and also be a place one can be led to the Lord or is the purpose more for drawing in the unchurched so they can be saved? In Jesus' time, I notice that the disciples were constantly going out to spread the good news. We are to be fishers of man. Do we go to the lake or build the church on the lake? I think 'yes'. Both. My conclusion? How can we say one size fits all? Is God so simplistic that He can't design one pot for noble purposes and another for ignoble? Some need modern worship music, some need classical. Some need strict structure, others need room to flourish. Some need red carpet, others blue. All flowers were made different and all by God's design. Each grow best in different climates and soil needs. There is room for both. Don
D+B: I guess I would disagree - scripturally - that church is not for the unsaved to come to Christ. Jesus' whole mission was 'to seek and save the lost.' That was His heartbeat. No matter the location.
The greatest evangelistic moment in Peter's life was essentially a church service -- when 3,000 came to Christ.
It was immediately after that the Bible says they devoted themselves to prayer and study and etc... I cannot imagine that was a one-timer by Peter and the others, but that they were throwing out the net every single time they had the opportunity.
8 comments:
Might I make a comment here? I voted opposite of what I thought the leaders of our church might vote. My guess is that the leaders of the church would prefer the 1000 people who are not on fire for God because that is who is really "needed" in church. It's the people that might actually "need" God vs. the ones who already have got their Christian walk down pat. However, I believe that all of us, whether on fire for God or not, truly need God. Why? Because some of us have been on fire for God before. And now we find ourselves not on fire for God. And who knows? Maybe having 100 people on fire for God in our church would remind those of us who used to be on fire for God how great and awesome it really is. Then maybe we would want to be on fire once again.
You KNOW how we would respond? LOL. I'm not sure all the pastors would respond the same to this question. I always love playing 'devil's advocate' on some of this - besides, it doesn't tip my hand as to my actual opinion.
Some of my questions back would be: What does "ON FIRE" mean to you? Are there churches out there who have small congregations known for being "ON FIRE" for God? Fifteen years later, is the church the same size with the same people still being "ON FIRE?" I'm just asking. :)
Are there churches known for being "ON FIRE" where people just come to "watch those crazy people burn" from a distance? I'm just asking. :)
Is there a level of 'faith' and 'passion' that gets us into the 'on fire' camp? Are we not all on different journeys at different levels at different times? I'm just asking. :)
Like I said - 'devil's advocate' on this.
I find this poll very hard to answer, so much so, that I didn't answer at all. I think the people who are on fire for God can inspire us and encourage our own love for Jesus. I always feel good and smile to myself when I see folks up front during the worship...sometimes, I am one of them.
Having said that, I like a big church. That is why I chose to give KFA a try in the first place. I think if everyone there were "on fire" for God, it would scare people off. As it is, I had no idea what was going on the first time someone interpreted a message in tongues. I was completely confused about that. Had no idea you all were Pentecostal.
I have been on fire and not been...the only thing I can say with complete confidence, is that if Jesus were here to sit down and talk to me, in person, it would make a 100% difference. I know this might not be PC, but I find it harder to pray to Him when I can't actually speak with Him. I am a person who needs feedback and answers to develop a relationship that survives the ups and downs. I don't think many folks in the church can relate to that. I feel like the odd man out.
I DO feel built up and closer to the Lord when I am around others who are on fire. It is contagious. It can be difficult in such a large church, though.
I voted for the 1,000, (which would also cover the first choice) it is my belief we need to be an example to others as well as others to us. To understand what it is to be on "fire" for the Lord. Not just in church but everywhere we are/go. It is shown and taught from our attitude which comes from the purity of the heart. The second commandment states this example: Love one another as I loved you.
I agree with Anon that there are some challenges in some areas w/ a larger church .. And some blessings. That is why we strongly encourage all our people to get in, join or form a small group.
PK...I am in a small group, which is such a blessing. There are amazing and wonderful people there. We are just in a bit of a transition. The leaders are facing a difficult family situation right now.
Every time I spend the evening with them, though, I am blessed. They are strong Christians and help me in my own spiritual walk.
The first verse that pops into my head is, " since you are neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth." What this tells me is God is saying "Get off the fence!"
When I see a small handful of people working their hearts out to reach I goal, even if I am less motivated, their fire rubs off on me and it either scares me away running or draws me in and I start emulating them.
We need to recognize that we are not what we think we are, we are what we think. (there is a verse to this effect - it evades me at the moment)
When I get in a large group that is lumbering along, I begin to think, "This is how we are suppose to progress. Those who are "fired up" should kick it down a few notches and conform. Look at the numbers. So many people can't be wrong." However, the Bible teaches that the road is narrow and not many choose it. So is the path I need to be on going to be the popular one?
There is plenty of positives to the size of a church in some respects. I'll admit that when I was looking for a church, I used man's logic - if there is plenty of people in a church, they must be doing something right.
I also challenge each of us to search scripture as to what the purpose of the church is? Is the main purpose more for believers to come together for worship and fellowship and also be a place one can be led to the Lord or is the purpose more for drawing in the unchurched so they can be saved? In Jesus' time, I notice that the disciples were constantly going out to spread the good news. We are to be fishers of man. Do we go to the lake or build the church on the lake? I think 'yes'. Both.
My conclusion? How can we say one size fits all? Is God so simplistic that He can't design one pot for noble purposes and another for ignoble? Some need modern worship music, some need classical. Some need strict structure, others need room to flourish. Some need red carpet, others blue. All flowers were made different and all by God's design. Each grow best in different climates and soil needs. There is room for both.
Don
D+B:
I guess I would disagree - scripturally - that church is not for the unsaved to come to Christ. Jesus' whole mission was 'to seek and save the lost.' That was His heartbeat. No matter the location.
The greatest evangelistic moment in Peter's life was essentially a church service -- when 3,000 came to Christ.
It was immediately after that the Bible says they devoted themselves to prayer and study and etc... I cannot imagine that was a one-timer by Peter and the others, but that they were throwing out the net every single time they had the opportunity.
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